{"id":28960,"date":"2022-06-25T18:26:42","date_gmt":"2022-06-25T16:26:42","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/p-portal.net\/?p=28960"},"modified":"2022-07-02T19:37:57","modified_gmt":"2022-07-02T17:37:57","slug":"sinisa-skarica-i-did-not-think-odbrana-i-poslednji-dani-would-still-be-a-topic-40-years-later","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/p-portal.net\/en\/sinisa-skarica-i-did-not-think-odbrana-i-poslednji-dani-would-still-be-a-topic-40-years-later","title":{"rendered":"Sini\u0161a \u0160karica: I Did Not Think Odbrana i poslednji dani Would Still Be a Topic 40 Years Later"},"content":{"rendered":"

Exactly 40 years ago, in 1982 (on the Good Friday, legend has it), the album Odbrana i poslednji dani <\/em>(The Defense and the Last Days<\/em>) by Idoli came out. It is the record that has been ranked first on almost all the lists of best Yugoslav rock albums since then. It is an album that still astounds with its lyrical and musical boldness, willingness to explore and unusualness within the domestic musical scene of the time. Many have discussed, debated, written about and even reached a kind of consensus on this album, which continues to shine with something darkly mysterious that is not mystification but still leaves a mystical trace after listening to its unusual, enstranged songs, lyrics and music. It is an \u201copen-ended\u201d record, a kind of a \u201crock and roll Ulysses<\/em>\u201d or Sgt. Pepper<\/em>, where each new generation and each new listen produce new readings. It was published by the Zagreb record label Jugoton; the editor was Sini\u0161a \u0160karica<\/strong>, undoubtedly the greatest musical editor and, as the Americans would say, \u201ctalent scout\u201d in the history of Yugoslav discography. Barely a few days later than the date of release 40 years ago, Croatia Records, Jugoton\u2019s successor \u201con a reduced area\u201d, released a remastered version of Odbrana i poslednji dani<\/em> with accompanying lyrics and other material. That is another reason to talk to Sini\u0161a \u0160karica, a man of uncommonly disciplined memory and tremendous energy, which \u201cswitches on\u201d during any conversation about his past work and music in general and seemingly cannot run out. In a time of all kinds of mystifications, distortions and additions, his insider\u2019s look at the history and the context of the creation of this major album of our music and culture has an authentic, almost documentary value; it is a testimony invaluable in today\u2019s world.<\/p>\n

It is the fall of 1981. As their editor in Jugoton, you, of course, know that Idoli are recording an album in Belgrade, and an album a lot is expected from. After how long did you arrive there from Zagreb to check what was going on?<\/strong><\/p>\n

A year before the record was made, I was present in the same large, main Studio 6 of Radio Television Belgrade for almost three months during the recording of Bijelo Dugme\u2019s Do\u017eivjeti stotu<\/em>. We all bonded very much then because Paket aran\u017eman<\/em> was being recorded simultaneously with that. Bregovi\u0107 <\/strong>met Idoli when they were recording in the Druga Maca Studio with Enco Lesi\u0107<\/strong>. He had heard their music before; we talked about it during recording sessions in Studio 6, and Pera Lukovi\u0107 <\/strong>had already given him their first single \u201cRetko te vi\u0111am sa devojkama\u201d before. Bregovi\u0107 was very interested in Idoli and said that he would produce their music if Jugoton signed them on. I told him that \u201cMalj\u010diki\u201d would definitely be the first single \u2013 that song stood out from the beginning \u2013 and he produced it in Jadran Film in Zagreb. A year later, Idoli asked for practically the same studio conditions that Bregovi\u0107 and Bijelo Dugme had had. They wanted Joca Vi\u0161kovi\u0107 <\/strong>to be the sound engineer and lead and oversee the recording because he had overseen Do\u017eivjeti stotu<\/em>, although Rade Ercegovac <\/strong>worked on that as well as the sound technician. They wanted Mile \u201cPile\u201d Mileti\u0107 <\/strong>as the second technician and chose Radio Belgrade\u2019s Studio 6 and Studio 13 to record in. They started recording in November 1981; I was at those sessions maybe twice. I saw that they were struggling, that those recording sessions were a real struggle.<\/p>\n

What exactly did you hear; what did they play for you?<\/strong><\/p>\n

Something neither they nor anyone else was satisfied with. I saw that it would be a difficult process whenever I met them. But they had carte blanche<\/em>: \u201cYou\u2019re making a new record? OK. Do it, you\u2019ve earned it; you made a great mini album, and I believe in you. You\u2019ve got potential.\u201d That first mini album they made with Film sold over 100,000 copies \u2013 so, they earned our trust. In recording Odbrana<\/em>, however, they recorded and deleted over and over again. And that is the real truth about this record. When they finished recording it in February 1982, I was not surprised it was both a good and very difficult record, musically different from anything they did with producer Piko Stan\u010di\u0107 <\/strong>at Radio Zagreb when they made the mini-LP. It was clear to me that Odbrana <\/em>would not sell a lot of copies, but I also realized that, in postulating this \u201csomething\u201d that was supposed to be different, in the end, they did actually make something completely new. They succeeded in that. \u0160aper<\/strong> probably influenced the record \u201cideologically\u201d the most. He was into philosophy and theosophy and contemplated God and religion. But when it comes to the instrumental side and the players \u2013 Vlado Divljan <\/strong>and Zdenko Kolar <\/strong>\u2013 the only thing that really worked was Divljan\u2019s musicality and authorial strength. If you take those few songs that were his \u2013 \u201cNebeska tema,\u201d \u201cPoslednji dani\u201d and \u201cRusija\u201d \u2013 and imagine them on a mini-LP, you\u2019ll see that they work. And Odbrana <\/em>wouldn\u2019t be what it is without them. This diversity is the basis of its strength that crystalized much later. I looked through the archives a little while ago: in those days, ROCK magazine used to make yearly lists of the five best albums according to critics. In the poll in 1983 that looked back on 1982, of the 29 important polled critics, only Dra\u017een Vrdoljak <\/strong>did not respond, and all the others, from Peca Popovi\u0107 <\/strong>to Darko Glavan<\/strong>, did. Of the 29 responses, most ranked Azra\u2019s Filigranski plo\u010dnici <\/em>first. Idoli were second on the list but with a difference of 40 votes, and 16 critics did not rank Odbrana <\/em>among the first five! The power, the multiple layers of Odbrana i poslednji dani<\/em> and the aura and epithet of \u201cthe best album,\u201d conferred by critics and, finally, the audiences, were only realized with time and the patina it brings.<\/p>\n

And you?<\/strong><\/p>\n

I haven\u2019t changed my opinion. I am not surprised that record is so well-regarded. I am more surprised that Ravno do dna <\/em>(a triple album by the band Azra recorded at concerts in the Zagreb club Kulu\u0161i\u0107 in the fall of 1981) was voted best by Ve\u010dernji list <\/em>readers, ahead of Sun\u010dana strana ulice <\/em>and Josipa Lisac<\/strong>\u2019s Dnevnik jedne ljubavi<\/em>. Although it\u2019s a live album, it\u2019s a record dearer to me.<\/p>\n

OK, that\u2019s from today\u2019s perspective. But back then in the studio, while Odbrana<\/em><\/strong> was being recorded, what did it look like? How did Idoli act as a band? What were the relationships like? They didn\u2019t even have a producer on the album.<\/strong><\/p>\n

They didn\u2019t. They hired various people \u2013 Goran Vejvoda<\/strong>, Mile Mileti\u0107, who also played some guitar. They had technical leadership. But they can\u2019t play for them. They, Idoli, weren\u2019t players. It was a reduction. I have a philosophy: take, for example, Li\u0161\u0107e prekriva Lisabon<\/em> by Elektri\u010dni Orgazam. Why is that record so experimentally excellent and perhaps their best work, so unusual, different and even confessional when it comes Gile<\/strong>? When you lack the kind of playing skill that you have when Dado Topi\u0107<\/strong>, Josip Bo\u010dek<\/strong>, Vedran Bo\u017ei\u0107 <\/strong>and Ratko Divjak <\/strong>enter your studio \u2013 then there\u2019s no problem. You have an idea how the song goes; you sing, they play, and that\u2019s it. And they (New Wave musicians) had to patch up their holes somehow. And they are intelligent and have the knowledge. They wanted to make something different and special and succeeded in the end. But they struggled a lot. Over 400 hours. They worked for two or three months in two studios until they finally brought me the material, and I was happy it was finished.<\/p>\n

You listened to the album for the first time in the spring of 1982. The first song is \u201cKenozoik\u201d \u2013 alright, that is acceptable enough. But then the songs become more and more difficult and the themes and music more complex. And then comes the major moment \u2013 the song \u201cMoja si.\u201d How did you react when you heard that radical, confusing, difficult, even frightening song, which ends in \u0160aper\u2019s voice singing an Orthodox church hymn?<\/strong><\/p>\n

No, no, I wasn\u2019t bothered or surprised by it. We had already had these shocks at Jugoton, with \u201cChrist was a bastard and a wretch\u201d (the notorious line from Bregovi\u0107\u2019s song \u201cSve \u0107e to, o mila moja, prekriti snijegovi, ruzmarin i \u0161a\u0161,\u201d from Bijelo Dugme\u2019s 1979 album Bitanga i princeza<\/em>). Idoli\u2019s line \u201cJesus is our May\u201d was not changed and remained in the song.<\/p>\n

And the song \u201cGlavna ptica\u201d and the line \u201cThe Marshal is my god\u201d? That couldn\u2019t stay, and they changed the lyrics.<\/strong><\/p>\n

They changed that of their own accord. You are right; it was a kind of self-censorship. It was bad, but we were used to it. We were raised that way. But everything else was fine. Now they mention the Cyrillic letters on the cover. I learned the Cyrillic at the same time as the Latin script; it\u2019s not the same as for today\u2019s generations. It was completely normal to me.<\/p>\n

So, they bring you a proposal for the cover: a fragment of a medieval fresco over which the album title is written in Miroslav Cyrillic font. What is your reaction?<\/strong><\/p>\n

I thought it suited the material of the album. Uncommercial but \u2013 let\u2019s do it! That\u2019s it; we are doing it. It would have been nicer with their faces from the inside jacket, from the color photos by Goranka Mati\u0107<\/strong>. But this was chosen, and it was OK. That\u2019s the way they envisaged it. A somewhat hermetic album, like they wanted it. They flirted a little with religion, with Orthodoxy there\u2026<\/p>\n

Do you remember your reaction when, at the end of \u201cMoja si,\u201d as difficult as it is, you heard \u0160aper singing \u201espasi nas, ute\u0161itelju blagi, poju\u0161\u010dija ti, Aliluja\u2026\u201c? Were you scared? Krsti\u0107 says you \u201cfroze.\u201d<\/strong><\/p>\n

I didn\u2019t, I didn\u2019t (laughter). Seriously. You can feel that through that record. Some later said that \u201cmoja si\u201d could in fact be \u201cmonasi\u201d [\u201cmonks\u201d]. That is speculation, like all that about transgenderism and androgyny (the lyrics: \u201cYou\u2019re mine, you\u2019re mine; she watches herself dress. He would like to be that girl; he would like his friends to love him, to try to change himself.\u201d). Such records, like books, leave, of course, room for different interpretations.<\/p>\n

Did they bring you \u201cGlavna ptica\u201d with the line \u201cThe Marshal is my god\u201d or the altered version?<\/strong><\/p>\n

They brought the original version.<\/p>\n

And you told them: \u201cBoys, this can\u2019t stay\u2026\u201d?<\/strong><\/p>\n

No, no, I never talked like that. I think I told them: \u201cWhat are we going to do with this? Are you, are we, going to keep it?\u201d Remember that \u0160tuli\u0107 had Filigranski plo\u010dnici<\/em> at that time and the song \u201cTko to tamo pjeva\u201d: \u201cArmored ships carried you to all four corners of the world\u2026\u201d Of course, everyone knew who he was alluding to.<\/p>\n

He also censored himself, changing a line from \u201cand nonaligned, cousin\u201d to \u201cand generous, cousin\u201d for the album.<\/strong><\/p>\n

He did that himself. Just like for the song \u201cKurvini sinovi\u201d: he sang \u201cRussians are coming\u201d at every concert but changed that on the record. I didn\u2019t even know; I saw and heard those recordings from concerts later. Similarly, Idoli said, \u201cYeah, fine, it isn\u2019t important.\u201d<\/p>\n

You mentioned \u0160aper and his interest in philosophy and theosophy. Did you two talk about ideas then, or did you find about that later?<\/strong><\/p>\n

I found out later. I wasn\u2019t aware of that, nor did we talk about it in that way. Of course, we at Jugoton knew there was an Orthodox chant there. Anyone who is a little into music or is religious will hear it. I\u2019m not religious, but I was familiar with it \u2013 I had heard Orthodox church singing a million times. Besides, only four years earlier, in 1978, Jugoton published the famous Divine<\/em> Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom <\/em>by Stevan Mokranjac<\/strong>, performed by the Ivan Goran Kova\u010di\u0107 Academic Choir, directed by the great Vladimir Kranj\u010devi\u0107 <\/strong>and with the great Vladimir Ru\u017edjak<\/strong> as the solo baritone.<\/p>\n

With this record, something became visible within the band \u2013 a division between Vlada Divljan on the one side and \u0160aper and Krsti\u0107 on the other. Did you sense any of it then?<\/strong><\/p>\n

No. I didn\u2019t sense it then. I didn\u2019t sense it even when they did \u010cokolada<\/em> and tried to go back to that camp<\/em> expression that they amply used on the mini album.<\/p>\n

When Odbrana<\/em> finally came out, you were sure it wouldn\u2019t sell?<\/strong><\/p>\n

Yes, but in the end, it actually sold quite well \u2013 some 30,000 or 40,000 copies, close to being certified gold, which required 50,000 copies sold at the time. For a band that had sold 100,000 or close to 200,000 copies, albeit together with Film (the cassette album had Idoli\u2019s mini album on one side and Film\u2019s Live\u2026 u Kulu\u0161i\u0107u <\/em>on the other), and later sold almost 300,000 copies of \u010cokolada<\/em>, you could say it was not a success. On the other hand, the band Animatori released their first album \u2013 a light, authorial pop record \u2013 a year later and sold fewer than 30,000 copies, and Idoli\u2019s record was much more hermetic.<\/p>\n

Did anyone at Jugoton have objections to you publishing the album?<\/strong><\/p>\n

No, they didn\u2019t. We had more problems with \u0160tuli\u0107\u2019s directness. His live album Ravno do dna <\/em>contained such lyrics that we had to put those disclaimers on the jacket to distance ourselves from them. Idoli had that misty esotery, and no one noticed anything controversial. And in those days, Cyrillic letters weren\u2019t a problem like today, when it apparently seems very provocative.<\/p>\n

I am not saying the Cyrillic script was provocative \u2013 it was, after all, taught in schools. I mean something else. It was 1982, when Dinamo was the champion of Yugoslavia, Cibona appeared and there was an awakening of a different kind of identity in Zagreb and Croatia.<\/strong><\/p>\n

I understand what you\u2019re trying to say. But the church singing and everything connected with religion, with Orthodoxy, on Idoli\u2019s album didn\u2019t bother me, and no reactions concerning it reached us from the public. Maybe people did react to it in their homes. We don\u2019t know what was in people\u2019s heads. We are still surprised when we hear some people\u2019s reactions today and wonder where they were when the album came out. That\u2019s just the way it goes. People perhaps had opinions about it but didn\u2019t express them publicly, not even the critics who wrote about Odbrana<\/em>. In that sense, it may have seemed that Idoli wanted to make something different and provocative at any cost but didn\u2019t really succeed in it. That\u2019s the way it looked. But now, looking back on it from this distance, it seems that they did succeed. The album still has an impact on listeners, and people\u2019s comments on it are largely positive but very diverse. Everyone has their own idea about what Idoli wanted to achieve with the album \u2013 therefore, it seems that Idoli achieved their aim, although they didn\u2019t really have a clear aim in sight. They probably thought, \u201cLet\u2019s do it and see what we get.\u201d There weren\u2019t any particular conflicts during the recording. As I said, we had more problems with Bijelo Dugme\u2019s Bitanga i princeza<\/em> and Azra, when the director of Jugoton Mirko Bo\u0161njak<\/strong> and I had to figure out how not to provoke strong reactions. The only time we were summoned to the municipal court was because of Azra\u2019s song \u201cPukovnik i pokojnik\u201d [\u201cThe Colonel and the Deceased\u201d] from the album Krivo srastanje<\/em>. Some retired military officer reported us. Probably a colonel.<\/p>\n

Idoli\u2019s lyrics weren\u2019t so direct and obvious, like those of Prljavo Kazali\u0161te or Johnny \u0160tuli\u0107. He later also wrote more cryptically. Idoli\u2019s cryptic style did not provoke reactions. Maybe they thought it would and would therefore be more commercial, but it simply wasn\u2019t.<\/p>\n

This will also be read by much younger readers. We need to put things into context. The band and the critics agree that this album could not have been released by PGP RTB or in Belgrade at all. It had to be in Jugoton, in Zagreb, and not in Belgrade.<\/strong><\/p>\n

Look, that is so funny. I was just reading an interview with Slaven Bili\u0107<\/strong>, where he says that \u201cwe in Croatia couldn\u2019t say what the Serbs said.\u201d He is talking about the footballers in the national team, where everyone was mixed. I laughed at that, but on the other hand, perhaps you are right. Similarly, they probably said in Belgrade: \u201cWe can\u2019t release it, but the Croats could.\u201d Just as they might release some Catholic performer. But that isn\u2019t true either because at one point we released a record with religious songs by Glas Koncila<\/em>, Arsen Dedi\u0107<\/strong> and the group \u017deteoci. We released that record as a favor (the album To nije tajna<\/em> by the Catholic pop group VIS \u017deteoci \u2013 the first record of spiritual music in the pop style in Yugoslavia \u2013 author\u2019s comment). Someone from \u201chigher up\u201d needed it, Savka <\/strong>or someone else\u2026<\/p>\n

That was a different era. I am talking about that moment in 1982, two years after Tito\u2019s death, a little before Rankovi\u0107 died and so on\u2026<\/strong><\/p>\n

You think that PGB RTB would never have published it, and only we could? Maybe, but for a different reason: we were the only ones who published it all, the whole scene, except for Riblja \u010corba, who later also came to Jugoton for a while and recorded one album. The fact is we had everything<\/em>: the whole New Wave, Oliver Mandi\u0107<\/strong>, Zana, Laboratorija Zvuka, the Belgrade and Novi Sad scene\u2026 So it wasn\u2019t even a question. Everyone fared the same way. When the people at PGP recorded \u0160arlo Akrobata and heard how avantgarde it sounded, they rejected them, and \u0160arlo Akrobata called me then. I was in the middle of a meeting when Koja <\/strong>called me and told me that PGP said they weren\u2019t interested in their music. He asked me if we would buy it; we only had to pay the recording fee for Studio 5. I told them: \u201cOf course we will buy it. You could have come to us straight away; you didn\u2019t need to go to PGP at all.\u201d They are the only band of the three bands from Paket aran\u017eman<\/em> that decided to record for PGP. Everyone, therefore, gravitated toward Jugoton. Belgrade critics even wrote: \u201cWe are lucky Jugoton exists.\u201d It was the same with Odbrana<\/em>. It had nothing to do with the subject, which was \u201cdomestic\u201d there, so we \u201cfrom across\u201d would publish it more easily.<\/p>\n

In short, back in those days, you never thought that this record would be talked about 40 years later?<\/strong><\/p>\n

That\u2019s for sure. But that is also due to my personal taste. It is an important record, a really great record, but I could name ten records that I like more and are, in my opinion, more important. I would even put their mini album from 1981 on that list if it didn\u2019t lack a few things because, for me, it is truer to them than what they did on Odbrana<\/em>. The mini album was a product of spontaneity, and Odbrana<\/em> was constructed. I know how it was made.<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Translation from Croatian: Jelena \u0160impraga<\/em><\/p>\n

\"\"<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

The greatest music editor in the history of Yugoslav discography talks to P-portal: The power, the multiple layers of Odbrana i poslednji dani and the aura and epithet of \u201cthe best album,\u201d conferred by critics and, finally, the audiences, were only realized with time and the patina it brings<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":49,"featured_media":28704,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"15","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","footnotes":""},"categories":[317,330],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-28960","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-intervjui-en","category-upoznajmo-se-en","infinite-scroll-item","generate-columns","tablet-grid-50","mobile-grid-100","grid-parent","grid-33"],"featured_image_src":"https:\/\/p-portal.net\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/06\/Sinisa-Skarica-scaled-e1656169263371.jpg","featured_image_src_square":"https:\/\/p-portal.net\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/06\/Sinisa-Skarica-scaled-e1656169263371.jpg","author_info":{"display_name":"\u0110or\u0111e Mati\u0107","author_link":"https:\/\/p-portal.net\/en\/author\/djordje-matic"},"rbea_author_info":{"display_name":"\u0110or\u0111e Mati\u0107","author_link":"https:\/\/p-portal.net\/en\/author\/djordje-matic"},"rbea_excerpt_info":"The greatest music editor in the history of Yugoslav discography talks to P-portal: The power, the multiple layers of Odbrana i poslednji dani and the aura and epithet of \u201cthe best album,\u201d conferred by critics and, finally, the audiences, were only realized with time and the patina it brings","_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/p-portal.net\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/28960","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/p-portal.net\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/p-portal.net\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/p-portal.net\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/49"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/p-portal.net\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=28960"}],"version-history":[{"count":3,"href":"https:\/\/p-portal.net\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/28960\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":28964,"href":"https:\/\/p-portal.net\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/28960\/revisions\/28964"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/p-portal.net\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/28704"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/p-portal.net\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=28960"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/p-portal.net\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=28960"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/p-portal.net\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=28960"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}